Answer any TWO of the following questions...
Q1: Why do you think the Knight tells a story of “modern” knights and chivalry in ancient Greece? Why might someone use the past to tell of the present? How does one setting help reinforce the other?
Q2: At the end of Book One, Chaucer asks his audience: “here's a question I would offer,/Arcite or Palamon, which had most to suffer?" Which of the two do you feel suffers more for love of Emily? In some ways, this is a very serious philosophical question, since each lover has his own unique 'hell' away from the beloved. Yet how might this also be satirical/ironic in intent?
Q3: Examine Thesus’s response to the lovers at the end of Part II: is this a mockery of the knights' love or a defense of it? How might this be a commentary on the love story itself?
Q4: Discuss the manner of the Knight's narration/storytelling. How does he tell the story and what mannerisms does he seem to have? Where do we see his own personality/perspective coloring the narrative? You might consider passages such as in Part I, page 30: "But it were all too long to speak of these..."
Q2. I think that Palamon has it worse than Arcite because the phrase 'out of sight out of mind' is a thing. Palamon has to see daily Emily daily and that sucks. If you're not seeing them it's way easier to get over somebody. Yes, you still feel them and want them with you, but you can forget things about them which makes the healing process easier. I think this is funny though because had the Duke not healed them and kept them as prisoners they wouldn't be lusting after his women.
ReplyDeleteO4. I feel that the night is very sarcastic when telling the story. It's almost like he's jealous or just plain annoyed at the mission at hand. On page 30 "Or of the clamorous complaint and yearning/ These ladies uttered at the place of burning/The bodies, or of all the courtesy/ That Theseus, noble in his victory," he also says "I would be brief in what I have to say". He's like ready to get on with the story until he gets to talking about the Emily. He goes into quite a bit of detail so I think he almost lusts for her as well.
Great responses, though I think the Knight (and Chaucer) poses this question ironically: neither lover is better off or worse off, since the Knight thinks they're both fools. They're not knights at all, but silly men who have betrayed each other for a woman they don't even know. But you're right, the act of imprisoning them led to this unfortunate tale--but at least it gives the Knight something to talk about (and he likes to talk!).
DeleteQ2: I would say that Palamon suffered more. For if it were not him, Arcite would not have known of Emily. Not only this, but Arcite was the chosen one to be freed while Palamon was left to rot in the jail driven my his own madness and decay. Arcite had the opportunity to go back home or go on his own quest to find another women as was his freedom, but instead willingly plotted to go back into his own "hell" and slither his way back into the graces leaving his friend/brother to die. The duke has not only imprisoned them in his tower, but also in their minds, and relationships.
ReplyDeleteQ3: Examine Thesus’s response to the lovers at the end of Part II: is this a mockery of the knights' love or a defense of it? How might this be a commentary on the love story itself?
I believe Theseus's response is one of defending the knight's love. The duke allows both men to assemble a company each and provide yet another stage for which to engage each other. With choosing this later time and situation it also eases the mind of the women present in the king's company. He provides them an honorable alternative where each has the opportunity to grow his power and make a name for his self. The duke also has sympathy for them in being in love as he say he was also at one time. On page 51 the duke states aloud:
I long have known myself what love can do,
For, in my time, I was a lover too.
And therefore, knowing something of love's pain,
How violently it puts a man to strain,
The commentary sums up the knights' quarrel. How they fight laboriously even though they were once brothers. Now they have yet one last chance to openly fight for the love of Emily.
The fun of this Tale is that we actually try to determine who has suffered more, when, in reality, both of them are equally miserable and foolish. The Knight certainly sees them this way, and probably wants his son to as well. And yes, I think Theseus is very understanding since he, too, has experienced love, but he also chides it as a foolish pursuit unbefitting such great knights. I think he gives them this chance as if to say "if you really want to kill yourselves over a woman who doesn't even know or care about you, go to it!"
DeleteQ2: Palamon is facing a time of greater distress. Every day he is taunted with her presence just outside his cell wall, but he will never be able to interact with her. Arcite is in another kingdom; his future could include a new love interest other than fair Emily. He has the chance, unlike Palamon, to do something about his situation. Palamon fears Arcite will begin a "...war on Athens ... and by some treaty or perhaps by chance..." (pg 37) make Emily his wife. Palamon has been left alone in a jail cell at this point and endures the worst of sufferings.
ReplyDeleteQ3: I believe Theseus's is in awe of the power of love. He states "both had escaped scot-free and could have gone to Thebes and lived there royally," (pg 51) but instead they have chosen to come back and risk their lives for Emily. I also feel he may be making fun of them just a little bit. Theseus is pointing out their wounds and the wage they've paid for love. He refers to love as a funny thing by saying "....she, the causes of all these jolly pranks, has no more reason to return them thanks..." (pg 51). I believe the entire love story is being described as unwarranted and daunting, due to the fact that two men who have always stood together must now kill each other in order to have the sister of the man who imprisoned them in the first place - how ironic.
I see your point, but Arcita might disagree! As I mentioned above, I think this question is posed ironically by the Knight, who doesn't think either of them are worthy of the title of knight--both are fools in his opinion. They have betrayed each other shamelessly in the pursuit of a totally unknown woman, and only at the end of the Tale do they somewhat redeem themselves in the Knight's eyes. And you're right about the irony of Theseus' speech: the brothers have taken a vow to protect one another, and now have to kill one another!
Delete
ReplyDeleteQ2:
I personally think Palamon has it worse, because locked up I prison he would have less of a chance of taking action for his love. Howeve, it did still take Arcite two years to do anything useful about it and eventually Palamon did the same even from prison. I find it hard to take any of it seriously and see it as anything but satirical, because both of these grown men who are princes and knights are acting absolutely ridiculous over some woman they have only ever seen through a window. If Chaucer feels the same way I feel about it, the irony is that both of these men do not have much to suffer over as far as Emily goes; there is much greater tragedy in the world. He seems to over-dramatize even his descriptions of the two men, which further leads me to believe this is satirical. On page 39 he says "To put it shortly, Palamon the pale/ Lies there condemned to a perpetual jail/ Chained up in fetters until his dying breath;/ Arcita is exiled on pain and death/ For ever more the long desired shore/ Where lives the lady he will see no more" when he knows as the narrator that these statements are not true at all. He could leave more up to the dialogue of the men to show their state of mind but instead goes into great detail to describe their miseries in his own words.
Q3:
I saw it at first as a mockery, as he voiced a bit of what I had been thinking throughout reading the story. On page 51 he says "Yet Cupid in the teeth of common sense/ Has brought them here to die in melancholy!". He continues to point out to the two the silliness of their endeavors in this section and how this was all a prank on them that nobody had known or cared about until just then. My favorite line we have read in the book thus far is "Well, well try anything once, come hot, come cold!/ If we're not foolish when we're young, we're foolish old." After saying this he does sympathize with the lovers' woes and gives them the chance to fight it out again and the winner take Emily for a wife. (Can we say trophy wife?)
Yes, the bathetic detail that the Knight lavishes on each knight's pains shows the irony of the situation. They really have nothing to lament, since Emily doesn't even know either of them exist. It's an idealized love which contrasts sharply with the idealized valor they are supposed to support for one another as brother knights. Thesus helps us see this, perhaps in the very voice of the Knight himself.
DeleteQ2:
ReplyDeleteI personally felt bad for Palamon more than what I did for Arcita. In Arcita's case, he has the oppurtunity to run away from an untouchable woman and find someone else. The case of Palamon, it's just cruel in a way. He has to sit and suffer through his longing for Emily. It is a psychological discomfort for him to sit. locked up in a cage, and wait around with no one. Before Arcita was released, Palamon at least had someone to talk to. Now, he's alone and wishing and hoping for things that will never happen. Palamon doesn't have it easy. Arcita might think that he ended up with the short end of the stick, but he has the oppurtunity to run away from the untouchable Emily and find someone else to love forever. He is able to run to a different land and live his life without worrying about being stuck in a unreachable tower and suffering to have Emily fall in love with him. Shouldn't he be more upset that he will never see his only last living relative, than to be upset over a woman?
Q3:
With Thesus' statement to the two knights, I feel that it is mockery. In my mind, I believe that he is trying to prove a point and persuade them to forget about Emily. He challenges them to a duel, and whoever wins is allowed to marry Emily. In the end, who is really the winner here? Yes, the one alive gets the girl, but is she really worth losing all of the family you have left? From these first two parts of the story, I believe the moral is that your family should always come before love and lust. I'm not really understanding all of it though. I'm still a little confused on what the outcome and what the definite moral really is.
-Jessica Johnson
Yes, I think Theseus is mocking them and their foolish, idealized love which will be their undoing. Which one is worse off? In a sense, it doesn't matter, since it's hopelessly subjective whether anyone can love a woman they don't even know. That's the fun of this Tale, we get sucked into it and then remember, "oh, even the teller of this Tale doesn't buy into it!"
Delete2Q. In the end, the result is still more or less the same. They both essentially have courtly love forced upon them. Either one would love to just marry Emily but as prisoners they literally can't converse of touch her, only look upon her. You can't be a knight in courtly love and only bask in a lady's presence, hence why both men still go through the motions of courtly love. Even Arcite is going through the motions when he is released and comes back.
ReplyDeleteQ3. Really, it doesn't seem to be either option. He never comments on courtly love but he does talk about what a man would do in love. And this is only after the lady's weep. Maybe it could be said that he views courtly love as ridiculous, since he has them fight for Emily, rather ironically. Since it is exactly the opposite of courtly love. A knight is supposed to fight for a lady, not for her hand in courtly love. Maybe he's tired of hearing about it from his son.
Kenia Starry
Yes, they are both going through the motions without the ideas behind them. Neither one is serving their lady or protecting the brotherhood of knights, which was designed to join knights in a great society. I think the Knight is mocking the literary conventions of courtly love (as you say) after having heard far too many love poems from his son.
Delete2. After reading about two knights who fell madly in love with a young girl after just watching her for a few days, I feel like they both suffered the same amount. However, I feel as though Palamon suffers the most. To be banished from a land for all eternity (or at least until the King passes) would suck if you felt like your one true love was there. At the same time, Palamon suffers a pretty shitty life too, since he’s locked up and has to see her every single day and can’t even proclaim his love. Both of the knights situations are ironic in the sense of courtly love. If these poems are still supposed to be based in the 14th century like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, then this should be centered around the idea that they have to fight for what they can’t and quite possibly, never can have!
ReplyDelete3. Maybe I was a tad confused at the end when Thesus approached the knights, but I feel as though he took their fighting as if it were a joke. While reading the passage about them fighting and Thesus and the women and basically everyone comes in, I get a sense of humor. After Thesus offers his deal to them, he states “Think yourselves lucky, sirs, and nod your head. That’s the conclusion I’ve decided on” (53), which I read in a very sarcastic tone. I think this may hint at how petty and pointless this little love affair is.
Bria Gambrell
Yes, Theseus is a bit bewildered by all of this, even though he knows how the power of love can destroy a man's senses. However, they are fighting for a woman they don't even know, and who doesn't know them, which is not the courtly love ideal. Also, they have betrayed one another, which also goes against the grain of knighthood. These early books are full of satire of literary conventions, and I doubt his son would have appreciated it much...it's almost like a SNL send-up of Twilight or another famous book.
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