For Monday: Austen, Northanger Abbey, Chs.16-22 (pp.88-124)
Answer TWO of the following...
1. In Chapter “21, we encounter
Austen’s spot-on imitation of a Gothic novel, complete with many of the
hallmarks of the genre from works like The Castle of Otranto and The
Mysteries of Udolpho (we’ll discuss these works in class on Monday). How do we read this chapter in particular—as
a parody or a legitimate attempt to conjure up a sense of horror for her
readers? Does the tone of a giggling
narrator lie behind this, or is Austen allowing herself, audaciously, to write
like a Mrs. Radcliffe?
2. How do you feel the Catherine/Henry
romance is progressing in these chapters?
Is it a dance of mutual respect and admiration, or does he appear more
condescending and dominating? Consider
the conversation in Chapter 20: is he mocking her Gothic sensibility or using
it to woo her more effectively? In
other words, does he want to correct her taste or share it with her?
3. Do you think Austen is more
critical toward the women in the book than the men? Consider the portrait of Isabella that emerges in Chapter 18,
when Isabella remarks, “A little harmless flirtation or so will occur, and one
is often drawn on to give more encouragement than one wishes to stand by...What
one means one day, you know, one might not mean the next. Circumstances change, opinions alter”
(99). Why might Austen have more of a
bone to pick with her own sex?
4. Consider the passage in Chapter 22
when Henry is praising Catherine’s love for a hyacinth: “And though the love of
a hyacinth may be rather domestic, who can tell, the sentiment once raised, but
you may in time come to love a rose?” (119).
What is he trying to teach Catherine here, or perhaps, what is he hoping
she has learned to appreciate/admire in this chapter?
1. I was legitimately captivated by this passage! I feel like Austen writes this partly in jest, but also partly to show off her ability to write in that genre. I think it is a mixture of both. I think Austen finds it fun to mix up what you would expect to find in her works!
ReplyDelete2. I’m starting to feel like Henry is trying to correct Catherine. I think in the conversation in chapter 20, Henry is being sarcastic in parts and Catherine doesn’t understand that he is pulling her leg. I can’t help but think that Henry may have intended for what happened with Catherine working herself up over the papers in the dresser to happen to teach her that her imagination is too far fetch. Also, that she is too engrossed in the Gothic novels.
Yes, he's talking a bit over her head--perhaps he's more talking to us, the readers, than to her. He is clearly trying to teach her while also trying to flirt with her, which probably isn't the best way to affect either end. However, he wants her to enjoy these novels without expecting to be a heroine in one of them. She isn't at this point yet, though she soon will be. Of course, Austen reminds us that novels aren't bad in themselves, since they do teach you to discern character and read the world--as Catherine clearly does (despite some botched interpretations).
DeleteAshley Bean
ReplyDelete1. I see a little bit of giggling, but not to make fun of the genre, I think it's more pointed at Catherine. Catherine kept saying how she didn't expect to find anything, but looked anyways, and such. She couldn't contain herself! I think Austen is showing that these Gothic novels can really captivate people, whether it's giggling or terror.
2. I feel like he does want to share it with her, but maybe is trying to point out that she does take it a little too far. He seemed to get excited with his own description, so I don't think he is purely trying correct her. I think he would definitely laugh at her if he saw her in her room that night, but in good humor. He kind of pokes her sometimes, but he enjoys the novels too.
Good responses--it is good-natured, and less against the genre than at Catherine's educational state. She still expects life to imitate art, and Henry finds this a bit amusing. Of course, he doesn't help matters when he paints a picture just as lurid as any Gothic novel, which basically sets her up to look for hidden manuscripts! His teaching is a mix of flirtation, censure, and irony--and Catherine is probably a little too young to appreciate most of this.
DeleteDeryk Ronk
ReplyDelete2.) I believe that Henry is trying to woo Catherine more effectively. He never speaks condescending towards her, and he even shares the same interests as her in many ways. I believe that what he did was to give her the real life experience she craves, while also allowing himself to see what he reads about first hand.
3.) I believe Austen is harder on members of her shared sex. I believe this because in this day and age (late 1700s) women allowed themselves to be viewed as lesser. Austen is showing that if they continue to act like dumb whores (even though they are not) then they will always be viewed as such.
Good responses...though I'm not sure it's as simple as women acting like dumb whores (even Isabella doesn't quite do this), but rather, a society that trains them simply to get a husband and disregards all other education (even spiritual education). Austen clearly wants to educate them through novels, since that's what women read most and what probably saved her as well. Henry appreciates this, though he can be a bit heavy-handed in his satire at Catherine (and even his sister's) expense, as when he corrects their word choice (though in the case of education, Catherine does know what she's talking about), etc.
Delete-Rocky Moore
ReplyDelete3. I think she is just more aware of the things that women do considering she is a woman. Like when they do things like Isabella who acts like she can do whatever she pleases without consequence, etc. It is like Austen is making a statement towards them for acting in such a un lady like manner. Although there are moments where she pokes fun at men as well she knows how some women think because she is a woman and has a better insight to them and how they would act as characters. Its like she wants the women of her day to catch onto some of the things she writes about, like how to act and what not.
4. I think he is definitely hoping that she learns how to love or appreciate someone like himself. I have though all along that he really likes her though I could be wrong. Even though he does seem to come off as condescending towards her at times even though I don't believe that to be his intentions, this passage tells me otherwise. I think he likes the fact that she has learned to love something different than what she's used to and then says that maybe one day she'll learn to love a rose, possibly hinting at loving him one day??
Yes, she is most critical of women since they have the most to learn (according to Austen). Her society trains women to be like Isabella or Mrs. Allen, and only by chance--or extensive reading--do a few Eleanor Thorpes and Catherine Morlands emerge into the world. Henry is a little misogynist at times, though only because he's seen too many Isabellas in his life. He wants the best for his sister and Catherine, but he can be a bit much sometimes...he does seem himself as the superior in the relationship (though he is humbled at the end, when he realizes how clearly Catherine saw the danger his father presented).
DeleteElyse Marquardt
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: Henry Tilney is entranced by Catherine's innocence and childlike wonder. He probably remembers those days "long ago" when he was her age, and he seems to enjoy acting young and silly over a good horror story with her, just like he himself used to do. He knows it's all balderdash (something she needs to become aware of, as she is still a bit too convinced that haunted castles and blood-stained ghosts exist), but he loves becoming a goofy young boy for a while and pretending it's real with her.
Question 3: I believe Jane Austen was probably disgusted by the behavior of most women in her day. She seems to have been a sensible, modest, very opinionated lady who was easily irritated by the shallow mockery at life that most of her peers led. Isabella is all of the annoying traits of these women, rolled up into one body who at first seems charming, but very quickly shows herself to be fickle, self-centered, and judgmental as the rest of the women were in Austen's time.
Great points...though I don't think Henry thinks it's balderdash as much as he teases her for being too much a fan. He likes it, too, but it's the difference between enjoying a book and dressing up as its main characters to go to a sci-fi convention. He enjoys teasing her since she is very young and naive, but without her interest in these books, she would be just as insipid as Isabella, which he clearly realizes. What saves Catherine from being another Isabella (too loose in morals and ideas) and Mrs. Allen (prim and proper to the point of being an imbecile) is the books she reads by women which, for all their excessive horror and romance, still allow her to dream and question the world.
Delete2. I think their romance is progressing in that Henry is trying to woo her in the story that he is telling to her. I don't think he is trying to be dominating but I do believe that he wants her to see that maybe she reads in to things a little too much sometimes. I believe that Henry also wants to be that manly man who is there to protect the girl during a frightening time, like any man would during a scary movie. The men want you to feel like they are protecting the women. I think Henry enjoys telling Catherine these stories about the abbey because he can have fun with it and kind of pull her leg a little bit. He doesn't do it to be domineering over her, I believe he is just having fun with how much she feeds in to his stories.
ReplyDelete4. I think he is trying to teach Catherine that there is more in this life to be explored. It isn't all cut and dry one way, there isn't one genre of reading just like there isn't one type of flower. I think Henry is trying to broaden her horizons a little bit. He wants her to know that there are other things to be enjoyed in this world and you don't always have to stick to one genre of book or one of anything really. I think he just wants her to understand how broad of a world it is that they are living in. I think Henry is trying to help her have an open mind to new things and things that can be somewhat outside of her comfort zone.
Yes, he is clearly poking fun at her and trying to flirt with her, while at the same time artfully steering her toward what he feels is a true education. He wants her to feel deeply and see past the artifice of the world, while at the same time not be so taken with emotion that she does something foolish--like imagine the Abbey is haunted! The world is broad and connected, and he wants her to see the connection between a book and a hyacinth, which is a very Romantic (not about love, but about sensibility) notion.
DeleteShelby Pletcher
ReplyDelete3) I don't think Austen is any more critical of men or women as a whole, however, as a woman I believe she's determinedly against the low expectations, not only placed on women of this period, but the low expectations they place on themselves intellectually speaking. And I think these views are intricately brought about in this book for a reason. There is such a strange juxtaposition brought about between the portraits Austen paints of someone like Isabella and one like Catherine. Isabella can't find an intellectual man worthy of falling in love because she herself is not pursuing intellect, but romance for the sake of romance. While Catherine, on the other hand, while it can be argued she's pursuing a shallow version of intellect in Gothic novels, she's pursuing more intellect than her peers, regardless. This pursuit has resulted in her coming upon a man worthy of love and respect in her eyes, because she wasn't so focused on finding him that she forgot to become someone a man she so desired would want to be with.
4) This was one of my favorite passages in this book. As someone who didn't find beauty and sentiment in the "mundane" for the longest time, now that I have found it, I see how well it has served me not only as a a growing person, attempting to grow in intellect, but as a writer. Which in turn, as turned me into a better lover of the people around me. I definitely think this is the direction Henry was going in and hinting towards during this conversation. I don't think it's about him wanting a pretty girl to like pretty things. I think it's quite the opposite. I believe Henry desires to see this pretty girl who seems to only like the things she DOES deem pretty (which is ironically, things such as Gothic novels) , to open her mind and her heart for love towards the things which she wouldn't immediately be attracted to or associate with yourself and the things you've always loved. Maybe Henry is asking some form of the classic question, "Do you only love the ones that look like you?"
Excellent responses...as you suggest, she is much more aware of sense and beauty than her fellow women (Isabella, Mrs. Allen), and Gothic novels aren't in themselves bad--indeed, Henry himself reads them. The danger, of course, is thinking that beauty/sense can alone be found in a book, which might prompt Henry's discussion of hyancinths. The point of an education is to see the connections between things, and Henry is delighted to see her branching out, whereas before she only had eyes for Gothic novels (though she does make a good point about the male-dominated narrative of history). This is also a very Romantic sentiment that is echoed by Wordsworth and Coleridge, who were just coming to their powers as Austen wrote this novel. As Wordsworth writes, "the meanest flower that blows can give/Thoughts that do often lie too deep for tears. " (Ode: Intimations of Immortality)
Delete2. I think it is more of an admiration. It seems as though he is trying to woo her in a way. He seems to want to be there to help comfort her and protect her during scary times. Most women like to have a man there to hold on to during scary times and I think Henry knows that. I think he tells her the abbey stories not to mock her, but rather share the moment with her. He gets to be there to comfort her, while they share in the Gothic time.
ReplyDelete4. I think Henry is trying to teach Catherine to see the beauty in things. What may not be the most beautiful thing right now could grow and transform into something so beautiful. I think he is trying to teach Catherine that their relationship could blossom into something more beautiful. I think he wants her to open her eyes to and see the richness that life has to offer.
Sorry, I forgot to put my name... Kelsey Tiger
DeleteGood responses...he at once is critical of her Gothic interests, but is also sympathetic to him. I think he understands instinctively that women's lack of education makes them vulnerable to romantic flights of fancy, so he's trying to steer her toward real things--like hyancinths--rather than a complete diet of The Mysteries of Udolpho.
Delete1. I found the book to be more interesting and exciting during these portions. The parody comes with the anti climatic conclusions, but everything leading up to it is spot on for a well written gothic novel. Maybe Austen is flexing her diversity as a writer! Although I was never scared, because I knew the ending would be anti-climatic (from class discussions), I think there would be a slight sense of horror had I went into the passage ignorant of the ending.
ReplyDelete2. I think it is progressing at a safe pace. He does respect and admire Catherine, but not to the same level of infatuation Catherine has for him. Catherine sees him incapable of fault at times. At the surface it may look condescending or dominating, but in context I interpret it different. The game changer is the dance earlier in the book. Henry gives his grand metaphor of marriage and dance, and Catherine vocalizing her disagreement. This is there first real conversation and Catherine all though young and inexperienced isn’t afraid to voice her opinion. Of course he wants to show off his knowledge because he wants Catherine to admire him all the more, but I don’t believe he is begin condescending. Even on the trip to the Abbey he is having FUN with Catherine. Catherine is eating it up and having one of the best moments of her life; I find it very endearing that he wants her to have a good time. Seeing a woman as more than a potential mate, but someone you could laugh and have phone with was a rarity in those times.